[Bishoblue]

Have or are you tempted to buy an established web design/hosting business?

Do you prefer to start from scratch and build up your entire client portfolio yourself?

[oakleaves]

Hi Bishoblue,

Welcome to the forum..

That's a good question actually, but not something I've considered myself. Be interesting to hear other people's thought's on it..

[Bishoblue]

I have a background in non-technical IT consultancy (planning/project management), admin, general business support roles.

I am currently retraining in web design at a local college with the intention of transitioning into part-time self-employment and then retiring overseas in approx 10 years.

I am contemplating buying a small established web design/hosting business to kick-start this transition. While I am learning how to code, I am more likely in future to outsource the design/development work and focus on marketing and business analysis.

I will perform the usual due diligence before purchasing any business to check that the business is what it seems to be and is right for me.

But what risks do you think there are for anyone buying an existing web design business and what questions would you ask the seller?

[Renaissance-Design]

I think you shouldn't cross-post. Pick the most appropriate board for your question and stick to it.

Threads merged.

[pandadoodle]

I've bought and sold many business over the past 5 years sold my stake in agencies never bought though! However I think your missing a crucial element here...

Quote

I have a background in non-technical IT consultancy (planning/project management), admin, general business support roles.

Why not use the skill set you have and focus on developing customer relations and managing the projects for the clients heck even establish your self as a high end design company that only tenders for work with your background you should do well in this area. By all means learn the "basics" but when it comes to design and development employ skilled people to fill the holes you missed.

I've bought and sold a few chip shops, just because I own 1 or 2 does not mean I stand behind the bar cooking and serving!!

[Renaissance-Design]

To be fair, owning a chip shop isn't exactly comparable to owning a design/development agency.

In order to work optimally, designers and developers need to be managed by someone with at least a basic understanding of what they do - developers especially. Otherwise you end up with PHB syndrome.

[zed]

and successfully running a hosting business is going to need more than just web design (especially a qucik course at a local college).

[pandadoodle]

Renaissance-Design, on 25 September 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

To be fair, owning a chip shop isn't exactly comparable to owning a design/development agency.

In order to work optimally, designers and developers need to be managed by someone with at least a basic understanding of what they do - developers especially. Otherwise you end up with PHB syndrome.

What do I do full time Chris? Freelance in design, what have I said I done on many occasions run and owned design agencies...

Why don't you get your head out of the book, land some clients and actually produce something worthwhile. If you bothered to read my post in the first place you would not have bothered to post such an idiotic reply.

[Renaissance-Design]

It's not an idiotic reply, sunshine. Just pointing out that managing technical and non-technical staff are two entirely different animals, so your chipshop comment wasn't hugely relevant to your own point. If you'd wanted to, you could have picked up what your chippy staff's job entailed over the course of a single shift. The OP is doing the responsible thing and picking up the basics of the industry he's trying to enter.

I don't know whether you're just having a bad day or you have some sort of problem with me personally but this isn't the place for it. You're only about half an hour from me so after I drop the kids off this evening I'll hop on a train and we can sort this out properly over a pint, but let's keep aggro off the boards, yeah?

[pandadoodle]

Chris

If you want a meet up and have a beer fine.

My point is as you seem to have missed by a mile if not more is that he already has a solid skill set that would go far in this business if he uses what he has, having (as I've already pointed out) a grasp of the basics is all well and good but trying to learn it all and go off and do it as a 1 man band may not be the best way if hes going to buy an established business.

I know how to cook and how the hobs work (my basic understanding) but I employ staff to deal with all that as Id rather focus my attention else where and grow the business.

If you read this :

Why not use the skill set you have and focus on developing customer relations and managing the projects for the clients heck even establish your self as a high end design company that only tenders for work with your background you should do well in this area. By all means learn the "basics" but when it comes to design and development employ skilled people to fill the holes you missed.

My comment makes sense.

Managing technical and non technical staff there is NO difference what so ever.

[Renaissance-Design]

The bit you quoted I read and wholeheartedly agreed with, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on the chipshop analogy. In my experience a non-technical manager managing technical people is inefficient and a waste of both his and their time. If he understands the information they're bringing to him in the least possible words he can make better-informed decisions - you can have all the management and business skills in the world, but unless you understand what makes your people tick and the challenges they face you'll never get the best out of them.

Beer sounds long overdue. This evening good for you, or sometime in the week?

[pandadoodle]

If you want to make arrangements for a beer PM me as I get countless warnings for taking discussions off topic.

From my experience I've had no issues managing people with skills that I do not posses or have little or knowledge about, I simply manage the person NOT the job.

So if you bought a building company you would be there mixing in the cement, getting the job done etc rather than telling someone mix at a 3-1 ratio and focus on the business side of things?

Buying a business is completely different to starting something from scratch. So leaving it there then agree to disagree.

This post has been edited by pandadoodle: 25 September 2011 - 02:17 PM

[oakleaves]

pandadoodle, on 25 September 2011 - 12:40 PM, said:

Why don't you get your head out of the book, land some clients and actually produce something worthwhile.

Uncalled for

The guy mods this forum well and I don't believe they get paid for it either?

The mods don't deserve this kind of cr@p

As for the original thread poster, wouldn't the web design business only be as strong as the current team? The clients would be loyal to the people surely? They'd soon go elsewhere if the work wasn't up to par? So how could you even put a price on the company in the firstplace?

I think you'd be better of starting from scratch?

[oakleaves]

As for questions you might ask..

I'd be asking plenty that's for sure. They are a lot of opportunists trying to sell internet businesses so I'd tread very carefully indeed.

Take businessesforsale.com

Look at 'internet businesses for sale'

The cheap stuff are usually just trying to make a fast buck, and the thing's that look half decent seem way over-valued.

This post has been edited by oakleaves: 25 September 2011 - 02:49 PM

[pandadoodle]

oakleaves, on 25 September 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

Uncalled for

The guy mods this forum well and I don't believe they get paid for it either?

The mods don't deserve this kind of cr@p

No mods don't get paid, but they do get given cr@p its part of the job, now that may not happen on the pixie land forum where love and peace is the message of the day, but in the real world mods get crap end of. If you don't like it report my post.

[Renaissance-Design]

If I bought a building company I could probably run it as well as I could a company in most industries - which is to say, nowhere near as well as I could run a web studio, an IT consultancy or a custom PC builder. I'd be an absolutely useless line manager or project manager in an unfamiliar industry, though - and from the OP's post, he's picked our industry because he's specifically interested in it. That means he'll likely want to take a hands-on management role rather than just dictating policy.

I enjoy freelancing. I'd much rather turn away work than employ staff, because managing people just isn't fun. Building cool stuff is. To answer your question, if taking a couple of days to roll up my sleeves and learn to lay bricks was going to cause serious damage to the business, I doubt I could turn it around anyway. But at least I'd have learned to lay bricks. I hear Churchill found it very therapeutic.

(Moving this back on-topic. Derailment was my fault, not Gerry's.)

This post has been edited by Renaissance-Design: 25 September 2011 - 03:03 PM

[Bishoblue]

1. Part of the due diligence process is to verify the valuation of the business (it's not a precise science and is negotiable), plus examine how much the business relies on the original owner and the impact on the new owner when it is sold.

2. My course is a 1 year HNC in web design with an option for a further year. I am doing it precisely to learn the fundamentals and identify my technical strengths, weaknesses and preferences. I anticipate that a lot of the design/development will be outsourced while I focus on securing contracts but this could change.

3. I do believe that there is a difference in managing technical and non-technical staff based on my 10 years experience in a variety of projects across software development/infrastructure/IT test environments. By rights, there shouldn't be - project management is project management - but my general experience of dealing with technical staff have tended to be very dismal compared to non-technicals in the area of attitude, behaviour and communication.

4. I am aware that there are laughable web design/ecommerce companies for sale. For example, nothing better than empty expensive e-commerce websites or fantasists who have built a few websites in their bedroom and have priced them as if they are a premier design agency. I think I can easily avoid these.

5. Though I have worked in a chip-shop, I have no plans to either return this role, nor invest in one. I do enjoy a smoked sausage, though.

[whyelse]

Renaissance-Design, on 25 September 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

To be fair, owning a chip shop isn't exactly comparable to owning a design/development agency.

In order to work optimally, designers and developers need to be managed by someone with at least a basic understanding of what they do - developers especially. Otherwise you end up with PHB syndrome.

We must ask Mike on this

oakleaves, on 25 September 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

As for the original thread poster, wouldn't the web design business only be as strong as the current team? The clients would be loyal to the people surely? They'd soon go elsewhere if the work wasn't up to par? So how could you even put a price on the company in the firstplace?

I think you'd be better of starting from scratch?

This ^^^

This post has been edited by whyelse: 25 September 2011 - 07:35 PM

[Renaissance-Design]

Bishoblue, on 25 September 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

3. I do believe that there is a difference in managing technical and non-technical staff based on my 10 years experience in a variety of projects across software development/infrastructure/IT test environments. By rights, there shouldn't be - project management is project management - but my general experience of dealing with technical staff have tended to be very dismal compared to non-technicals in the area of attitude, behaviour and communication.

Tech people can be a law unto themselves at times - they have a very different relationship with management, because they tend not to aspire to be management themselves.

Bishoblue, on 25 September 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

5. Though I have worked in a chip-shop, I have no plans to either return this role, nor invest in one. I do enjoy a smoked sausage, though.

Epic answer, top man. Sorry I derailed your thread, this sort of wrangle tends to pop up occasionally.

[oakleaves]

Bishoblue, on 25 September 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

4. I am aware that there are laughable web design/ecommerce companies for sale. For example, nothing better than empty expensive e-commerce websites or fantasists who have built a few websites in their bedroom and have priced them as if they are a premier design agency. I think I can easily avoid these.

1. Good Good

Sounds like you know everything you need to know already. Which leads me to wondering why you asked the question in the firstplace?

This post has been edited by oakleaves: 25 September 2011 - 08:14 PM