[rallport]

Hi,

I recently finished a eCommerce website for a client.

He's happy with the design/layout but is now saying it's not finished as all his existing products aren't on there (i've added him several categories and products as an example). He has 300 exisiting products. Hes has an admin area where he can add products himself.

No where the quote I provided him did it explicity say 'i'll add all the products for you'. He's saying that because he assumed I'd add these products for him and that because it doesn't specifically say this on the quote, that I should be 'finishing' the site for him by adding his exisiting products.

This is quite a job and products have multiple images, prices and attributes.

Where exactly do I stand here?

I mean if everyone thought like this they could come back and say add xxx feature to my site because i assumed you'd be doing it, it also doesn't say on the contract that you're not going to add feature xxx either. Surely his logic is absolutely flawed?

Any thoughts?

Ta

[nellyshark]

You have any contract with him? As in anything other than verbal?

Personal opinion is that if you were hired to develop/design the website then it's up to your client to administer it. But I would need to see any contract/communications you had with them.

These scenarios are a pain in the ass

rallport, on 12 April 2010 - 04:01 PM, said:

Hi,

I recently finished a eCommerce website for a client.

He's happy with the design/layout but is now saying it's not finished as all his existing products aren't on there (i've added him several categories and products as an example). He has 300 exisiting products. Hes has an admin area where he can add products himself.

No where the quote I provided him did it explicity say 'i'll add all the products for you'. He's saying that because he assumed I'd add these products for him and that because it doesn't specifically say this on the quote, that I should be 'finishing' the site for him by adding his exisiting products.

This is quite a job and products have multiple images, prices and attributes.

Where exactly do I stand here?

I mean if everyone thought like this they could come back and say add xxx feature to my site because i assumed you'd be doing it, it also doesn't say on the contract that you're not going to add feature xxx either. Surely his logic is absolutely flawed?

Any thoughts?

Ta

[rallport]

All we have a formal quote I sent out to him.

This doesn't specially say 'the price doesn't inline me adding 300 off products for you afterwards'.

He's using this as his main basis for dispute.

[BlueDreamer]

The problem stems from the fact that adding product data wasn't mentioned at all - therefore clients assumes it's part of the build. You didn't explicity say you'd add them but then again you didn't explicity say you wouldn't.

Interpretation wise I think you are correct and adding product data would be extra work and therefore chargable.

Put this one down to experience, next time you do an ecom site make sure that adding of product data (or not) is covered in the contract.

Work out a price if you want to do the work!

[nellyshark]

Was it a verbal quote or through email/print?

If through email/print can you tell us word for word what the quote was for?

rallport, on 12 April 2010 - 04:17 PM, said:

All we have a formal quote I sent out to him.

This doesn't specially say 'the price doesn't inline me adding 300 off products for you afterwards'.

He's using this as his main basis for dispute.

[rallport]

Don't think it'd be right for me to say it word by word as it's under the clients anem and company who i work for
Have been doing websites commervcially for close to 2 years now and this is the first time I've beene xpected to do such a thing.

I'd also be pretty surprised if web companies explicitly said 'we won't be adding products' - it's totally non standard practice.

[nellyshark]

Without seeing what the quote was for its difficult to advise, but yes it is totally non standard practice. Like for example if you quoted for the design and development of an eCommerce solution then you are on the pig's back but if it is anything more dubious then there are areas of grey.

Personally I would not add the products as a point of principal but it is easy say that from looking in.

rallport, on 12 April 2010 - 04:35 PM, said:

Don't think it'd be right for me to say it word by word as it's under the clients anem and company who i work for
Have been doing websites commervcially for close to 2 years now and this is the first time I've beene xpected to do such a thing.

I'd also be pretty surprised if web companies explicitly said 'we won't be adding products' - it's totally non standard practice.

[rallport]

nellyshark, on 12 April 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

Without seeing what the quote was for its difficult to advise, but yes it is totally non standard practice. Like for example if you quoted for the design and development of an eCommerce solution then you are on the pig's back but if it is anything more dubious then there are areas of grey.

Personally I would not add the products as a point of principal but it is easy say that from looking in.

I'd love to do this, but the client still owes £1200 (has already paid a further £1200 upfront).

[nellyshark]

Is the site live? 3,000 products is a hell of an amount to be entering tbh, for you I mean, not the website owner. I would still argue my case with them that it is not in the requirements of the job to administer and maintain inventory. I would hold firm on this, until the site has been paid for in full you are still technically the owner of the website. Maybe if you raise this issue with the client then the will understand it is not part of the brief.

I know in my own contract that I have it stated that client is to provide all content within a set number of days and if they haven't then I am legally entitled to charge the full amount and ownership does not pass over until the full amount has been received. If they wish to cancel then I can also keep the deposit and if that does not cover work done then I am entitled to charge a further 150 per hour worked.

Even if you cannot provide the quote word for word can you provide a sample without any names or prices?

rallport, on 12 April 2010 - 04:50 PM, said:

I'd love to do this, but the client still owes £1200 (has already paid a further £1200 upfront).

[Dizi]

It reminds me of a client I had a couple of years ago, he requested an e-commerce site and once it was done expected us to not only upload all 600 of his products but find out the rrp for them all and then deduct 20% off that price.

It was said to him that it wasn't part of the original quote so we would have to charge extra for it, but he turned around and said that he was under the impression that we were to populate his store as well and that we never said that we wouldn't be doing this. In the end we had to do it as there was still a large part of the bill left for him to pay and he was refusing to do it.

So now on the site in the T&C's is that the price given for e-commerce site is for the design, software and 10 products to be uploaded, providing all relevant information is given. If they want all their products to be uploaded they will be charged the hourly rate to do so.

This is also mentioned on any quotes given, along with a bit about how the quote is for the features stated and any features that are requested that aren't in the list are subject to an additional charge.


It is just one of those learning experiences, and I have worked for 2 start up companies and seen them both go through all sorts of situations with clients and amends of the way their businesses are ran. Common sense just goes out the window with some clients and they do think that if they buy a 2 page static website they can then get a 20 page CMS for the same price as the original quote.


So really you have two options. 1st one being just do it. 2nd one being stick to your guns and say that you will happily do it but as it was never discussed it will charge them extra...if they argue then explain it to him using what he sell, for example its like you ordering 3 bottles of vodka off him and then deciding that you want 300 instead for the same price.

[pbul2004]

I have a similar issue but on a much lower scale as you know lol. I think i am going to put it down to a bad experience and learn from my errors. But another side of me says i should charge him for the extra work which was never stated but he thinks its part of the package.

Tricky one, a hell of a lot of work in your case and a lot of money involved, go with your gut feeling, or come meet him half way.

But i think in your case i would charge him lol

[Torrix]

Dizi, on 12 April 2010 - 06:14 PM, said:

So now on the site in the T&C's is that the price given for e-commerce site is for the design, software and 10 products to be uploaded, providing all relevant information is given. If they want all their products to be uploaded they will be charged the hourly rate to do so.

I work in insurance and people always go on about how boring and tedious the documents etc are unfortunately its due to people like above and your client rallport that they have got so long winded and complicated. I think in this instance you may have to comply and learn from it.

Sorry to be blunt

Torrix

[freeresellers]

Not sure which ecommerce program you are using but I assume it is database driven. Explore the option to upload the clients product inventory from his existing product list/data.

Just a thought.

Regards,

www.FreeResellersPanel.com

[rallport]

freeresellers, on 12 April 2010 - 10:54 PM, said:

Not sure which ecommerce program you are using but I assume it is database driven. Explore the option to upload the clients product inventory from his existing product list/data.

Just a thought.

Regards,

www.FreeResellersPanel.com

Is a bespoke system we've made him. I did ask him about a database backup, but he deleted his old site has soon as he told me to proceed with the new site.

It's alos not as simple as restoring a database from a backup as his new store is lot more involved than his old one. E.g. he now has several product attributes, a better category structure and additional information to store for each product - before he literally only had a price, a sentence for the prod description and a small image.

[rallport]

To be perfectly honest, if you ever get clients like this you're quite screwed unless you've stated a long list of stuff you're not going to do.

As said, if this was a personal prject I'd stand my ground and not do this out of principal. But as this has been done commercially and my boss is obv. concerned about reputation. The situation sucks

[JimUK]

I can really empathize with the op, what an unpleasant place to be. Surely the content of any website is the responsibility of the owner.
I would quietly offer to upload the products for the client, but for a fee, and take the site down until agreement has been reached. I'm also assuming that the products and images would be provided so that they could be added to the database directly, which might save some time.
I've never had any client expect this, it must be hard to take.

[rallport]

OMG!

Have just found the original email is ent him. Atb the very bottom under the optional extras section it says:

[i]Importing existing product information into the system (if possible) - £155[/i]

This is just an extra I put on in case they had a database backup that I can import to speed things up.

What do you reckon?

[nellyshark]

Personally I would think you are on the pigsback now

I would be careful how you broach the topic however and remind the client that I was them, not you, who deleted the previous database.

rallport, on 13 April 2010 - 09:48 AM, said:

OMG!

Have just found the original email is ent him. Atb the very bottom under the optional extras section it says:

[i]Importing existing product information into the system (if possible) - £155[/i]

This is just an extra I put on in case they had a database backup that I can import to speed things up.

What do you reckon?

[rallport]

I'm tempted to come to a compromise - in that I'll add them about 30 products to get them started. KJust need to phrase it very carefully.

[nellyshark]

Or a set number in each category?

rallport, on 13 April 2010 - 10:12 AM, said:

I'm tempted to come to a compromise - in that I'll add them about 30 products to get them started. KJust need to phrase it very carefully.

[rallport]

Right, have just come off a very long call with him - 35 mins

He seems fine with all this now and isn't as annoyed today

I'm going to add him 30 products, spead across all his categories.

[nellyshark]

Result! Delighted for you

rallport, on 13 April 2010 - 11:38 AM, said:

Right, have just come off a very long call with him - 35 mins

He seems fine with all this now and isn't as annoyed today

I'm going to add him 30 products, spead across all his categories.

[pbul2004]

well done mate, glad you have sorted it.

[rallport]

Am sure this makes me sad, but I came into work today in a foul mood. Sorting this has put me in an ace mood.

[oneeyedpauly]

I've been caught out like this before, I now double check when people ask for an e-commerce site and if they require a certain number of products on there build it into the quote, that allows me to offer two prices, the cheaper option being they add their own products.

[rallport]

oneeyedpauly, on 15 April 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

I've been caught out like this before, I now double check when people ask for an e-commerce site and if they require a certain number of products on there build it into the quote, that allows me to offer two prices, the cheaper option being they add their own products.

Well it's lucky I did actually mention it at the very bottom of the quote

Have come to the conclusion that some people are simpy out to take the **** tbh

[banter]

Do you have a 'clone product' facility on the cart? I am wondering if all 3000 products are completely unique? If not, it might be quicker to add a clone or duplicate facility and edit a few details than manually add every single product. Just a thought!!

[rallport]

banter, on 22 April 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

Do you have a 'clone product' facility on the cart? I am wondering if all 3000 products are completely unique? If not, it might be quicker to add a clone or duplicate facility and edit a few details than manually add every single product. Just a thought!!

No need now.

Managed to get my hands on his existing products database, which was a MS Access database, so easy to get imported into MySQL.