55 replies to this topic

[nedski]

It's quite simple really, I've always been a Windows user & have dabbled with Ubuntu/Linux and I was considering upgrading to IE7. However I've met quite a few people recently who have told me "once you go Mac you won't go back."

So, which OS do you use? Or do you use several?

I really don't know what to ask Santa for this year ....

[willwrightwebdesign]

i have heard the same about macs it cud be costly thought if you want to go back

[berty bassett]

Hi,

Your in the position i was in 6 months ago.

I'd been a pc user for 20 years, but fed up with having to rebuild hard drives, windows crashes, having to constantly clean crap of the hard drive, the list goes on.

Friends of mine are Mac users and have been laughing at me for years. My main concern was having to change to mac versions of my software, getting to know a new OS, creating websites etc etc.

I took the plunge, and yes i havn't looked back, its chuffing brilliant, not had a single glitch. Yes i replaced a couple of software title i use the most and also bought Vmware Fusion which allows you to run windows programmes in a virtual enviroment, it works brilliantly.

I use IEtest in the windows environment to test sites for explorer, its a slightly longer way of doing things but the benefits of the Mac far outway that.

No problems with viruses, no need to clean the hard drive, system is quiet as a mouse, and the monitor is the best i've ever had.

Only took a couple of days to get fluent with the OS differences. It feels horrible now when i have to use a pc.

Hope this helps, they are right . . . you will not look back.

Cheers

Tony

[oneeyedpauly]

Hi,

Your in the position i was in 6 months ago.

I'd been a pc user for 20 years, but fed up with having to rebuild hard drives, windows crashes, having to constantly clean crap of the hard drive, the list goes on.

Friends of mine are Mac users and have been laughing at me for years. My main concern was having to change to mac versions of my software, getting to know a new OS, creating websites etc etc.

I took the plunge, and yes i havn't looked back, its chuffing brilliant, not had a single glitch. Yes i replaced a couple of software title i use the most and also bought Vmware Fusion which allows you to run windows programmes in a virtual enviroment, it works brilliantly.

I use IEtest in the windows environment to test sites for explorer, its a slightly longer way of doing things but the benefits of the Mac far outway that.

No problems with viruses, no need to clean the hard drive, system is quiet as a mouse, and the monitor is the best i've ever had.

Only took a couple of days to get fluent with the OS differences. It feels horrible now when i have to use a pc.

Hope this helps, they are right . . . you will not look back.

Cheers

Tony

This pretty much sums up exactly my experiences.

[notbanksy]

I've used Mac, Windows and Linux OSs extensively, and I present to you my analysis.

Windows: generally horrible but getting better as the years go by. a sad must for web devs due to IE, thank god for virtualisation. Of course, good for finding software easily, there's lots of it about.
Mac: very pretty and user friendly. Not as good as the fanboys make out, but in truth not far off. More reliable system than windows, and although there's less software, it tends to be of good quality.
Linux: the underdog, but arguably the best OS of the three. Predictable, reliable updates, more software than you can shake a stick at, stable as anything, and loads of fun. Slightly steeper learning curve but well worth it IMO.

In summary, it doesn't really matter what system you use if it works for you, but if you're a windows user looking for a change and you don't want to spend big bucks on a mac, download some linux. It's free FFS!!!!

[WebDizzy]

Of course Windows, it is more familiar to me

[urisjerry]

I am familar with Windows System and good at system recovery in windows system. So I insist Windows

[Tamizhan]

I think you should use the OS you can work best with (do not know if its a correct sentence xD) because all OSs have their pro & con and you as the user have to manage it ...

[sunwukung]

Indifferent - html, css, and javascript are not platform specific, and PHP can be run on all three (don't know about ASP) . The choice of IDE's is pretty wide on all three, and any task you need to perform in the context of web design can be easily accomplished on all three. Except one of them costs three to four times as much as the others...

[Blambu]

I've seen these debates all over the Internet and it's one of the very first topics forums tend to go out there and ask. It gets members instantly involved in debate and it's great, everybody begins to get stressed because Windows users can't accept the fact Mac does something good

Hehe I just got someone wound up whoever read that.

I've been a Mac user for the past 6-7 years coming from a PC background, of building my own PCs and eventually when I switched i have never looked back. They just work. They might cost a bob or two more but in the long run they're well worth every penny.

[imaginarynumber]

The main "problem" with windows is that they (microsoft) give you choice.

Apples are often more "reliable" because you can only use hardware sanctioned by them, this reduces the risk of driver issues but pushes up costs.

I for one am happy with W7 and ubuntu running on VMware.

The whole "Apple means no viruses" is pants- there are more viruses in the windows world because there are more windows machines, hence there is more incentive for virus writers to target windows.

There are many apple owners with infected machines who don't have AV programs because they don't believe that they need them.

[sunwukung]

They might cost a bob or two more but in the long run they're well worth every penny.

http://www.pcpro.co..../specifications

17" screen (1600 x 900 px), 4GB ram, Intel Core i7-720M, 7400 rpm drive, Nvidia GeForce GT 330M: approx £500

17" screen (1920 by 1200px), 4GB ram, 2.53GHz Intel Core i5, 5,400 rpm drive, NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M:
approx £1,899.00

A bob or two??? More like a bob or 1300...

[Guezala]

Mac and wouldn't look back. You say about system recovery on windows - well I've never needed such a thing on my mac.

But - I may in the future consider the linux route.

But never again windows!

[ElanMan]

Mac and wouldn't look back. You say about system recovery on windows - well I've never needed such a thing on my mac.

But - I may in the future consider the linux route.

But never again windows!

Just for anybody slightly wary of trying linux, please give it a go. As notbanksy said above, it's free ffs!
Download a live cd of any distro you fancy, Ubuntu,Xubuntu, Fedora, Mint etc and give it a whirl. It won't break your pc and may give you pause for thought regarding your Windows 'experience'

Oh and I noticed the vote was for best Web Design OS. If Web Dev is more your thang, the only option is Linux
In fairness, I've never used a mac but can't afford/don't need one

Edited by ElanMan, 13 June 2010 - 08:58 PM.

[cibgraphics]

I never have liked the argument about the software on OSX. I can get almost any kind of software I need on my Mac (minus IE). I have all my graphical programs, web dev, text editors, accounting... anything I want. So lack of software is a bunch of bull crap.

I have been on my Mac for about 5 or 6 years now. Never want to go back to Windows. You waste time managing the OS instead of getting work done.

[ArchDesignLabs]

mac and windows user for many years now and still to this date windows constantly disappoints me. I am with cibgraphics on this one big time. There is not a single software out there that you cant find either the same one or a better one. There is the argument though that macs now can run anything via bootcamp, fusion, or parrallels but windows pcs still only run windows unless you want to hack a pc which is not very easy to do and still gives tons of problems. I have windows installed on my mac and it actually works better than my work computer running windows. I say go mac all the way and you wont be disappointed.

Adam at ArchDesignLabs

[Scott S]

LOL I'm guessing the three votes for Linux are ElanMan, Notbanksy and myself!

Linux is definitely the way to go!

[imaginarynumber]

LOL I'm guessing the three votes for Linux are ElanMan, Notbanksy and myself!

Linux is definitely the way to go!

Whilst I am happy with w7, if the iphone/ipad hype continues unabated then the future might indeed be linux.

Through the release of the iphone and ipad apple have demonstrated that the public are gullible enough to be forced to run software that is officially endorsed.

For many years windows mobile allowed owners the freedom to search for their own software and install whatever they wanted (be it in .exe or .cab format). Along came apple and the press measured the success of phone OS in terms of the amount of APPS available in an app store. Apps which must be endorsed by the OS maker.

Sadly Microsoft have now seen the dollar signs and decided to follow suit with the forthcoming WM7.

The public have voted with the wallets, they are happy to live in a walled world. It is not inconceivable that the whole app concept could jump from phones to computers. There is no doubt that M$ and Apple would love a slice from the 3rd party software market.

This might indeed be a paranoid rant but I do not believe that windows mobile would have moved in its current direction had it not been for the iphone.

Apple are proprietary all the way though, from the early days where they refused to use tcp/ip (opting for apple talk) to their appleface video calling.

Microsoft aren't much better but at least they are better...

[sunwukung]

LOL I'm guessing the three votes for Linux are ElanMan, Notbanksy and myself!

Linux is definitely the way to go!

Whatif you want to develop ASP.NET & C# ...? BIG market for developers...

[Scott S]

Whatif you want to develop ASP.NET & C# ...? BIG market for developers...

Simple answer > http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

Cross platform .net development framework, also lets you compile C#

[Scott S]

Whilst I am happy with w7, if the iphone/ipad hype continues unabated then the future might indeed be linux.

Through the release of the iphone and ipad apple have demonstrated that the public are gullible enough to be forced to run software that is officially endorsed.

For many years windows mobile allowed owners the freedom to search for their own software and install whatever they wanted (be it in .exe or .cab format). Along came apple and the press measured the success of phone OS in terms of the amount of APPS available in an app store. Apps which must be endorsed by the OS maker.

Sadly Microsoft have now seen the dollar signs and decided to follow suit with the forthcoming WM7.

The public have voted with the wallets, they are happy to live in a walled world. It is not inconceivable that the whole app concept could jump from phones to computers. There is no doubt that M$ and Apple would love a slice from the 3rd party software market.

This might indeed be a paranoid rant but I do not believe that windows mobile would have moved in its current direction had it not been for the iphone.

Apple are proprietary all the way though, from the early days where they refused to use tcp/ip (opting for apple talk) to their appleface video calling.

Microsoft aren't much better but at least they are better...

I'm inclined to agree with the majority of that.

M$ may be better in regard to not forcing you to use proprietary apps, however the use of 3rd party programs is what causes a LOT of the complications with Windows that I see on a daily basis.

At least with OS endorsed software, you can be sure that it's going to work properly first time. Without tweaking, and that it's not going to cause conflicts etc.

But meh. I'll still stay with Linux lol

[ElanMan]

Simple answer > http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

Cross platform .net development framework, also lets you compile C#

Have to say, the IDE MonoDevelop is fantastic too

[sunwukung]

well okay then, I may well give linux a shot, i'm due an upgrade this month.
Since we're on the subject, and there are some old hands on deck:
why (in you opinion) is Linux > MS/MacOS?

[Scott S]

well okay then, I may well give linux a shot, i'm due an upgrade this month.
Since we're on the subject, and there are some old hands on deck:
why (in you opinion) is Linux > MS/MacOS?

Not sure whether to be offended at the OLD part... lol

OK. Linux vs M$:

Less virus worries.
Faster (even a bloated kde based distro will run faster than M$ on most machines)
Not as resource hungry (linux can be run on an 800mhz pc with <128mb ram without ANY problem. Try doing that with M$)
Not made by Micro$haft
Free Operating system, free software.

Linux vs MacOS:

Cheaper by miles (obv)
Same speed advantages as it has over windows (although not as major)
Same resource advantages as it has over windows.

Of course, once you decide to go down the Linux route, you've then got to decide on a specific distro, but that's a whole other post!
Not made by apple

[ElanMan]

I've never had the luxury of a mac, so can only compare linux to windows.
SWK, my main concern for you is the lack of photoshop compatibility etc as I realise your graphical prowess/expertise and don't think you'd get by with GIMP.
Apart from that, from a developer point of view, installation of php, apache, mysql, subversion, git, python, mono, ssh and all the relevant frameworks such as zend, django, smarty etc is a doddle compared to windows.
The command line isn't something to fear and most things can be done with a basic set of ~20 commands. Each app will have config files to amend as required/if needed.
Linux encourages you to expand your knowledge and get to know how your computer works (my 5 yr old has his own xubuntu laptop and loves playing about with it).
Plus, any old pc will do. At work I use an old 128Mb RAM pc as my test server running crunchbang linux. Running Fedora/Ubuntu on your main PC should compare favourably to Windows( whichever version).
The amazing thing about linux is the sheer amount of software available. Whatever you need to do, there is software for it. If you don't like the software, you can alter it if you like/know how to code.
For testing sites in IE, I run virtualbox with a different install of xp for IE6, IE7 etc. You can you use WINE for other apps like Spotify which works very well. However, if you're a gamer, look elsewhere.
As Scott said above, choosing a distro is a different thread altogether but you can have very small (puppy linux, dsl) to the full sized (ubuntu, fedora etc).
In any mention of linux, price has to be a factor; it's free ffs! Are you thinking of dual booting? Running on a spare machine? The whole hog? You have to try it, if only from a live cd

Linux isn't for everyone. As with most things, it takes a while to get used to but hopefully, you'll never look back

Plus++, the linux community is a very friendly place. If you experience a problem, chances are you'll find a solution pretty quickly.

Edited by ElanMan, 01 July 2010 - 10:53 PM.

[Scott S]

I've never had the luxury of a mac, so can only compare linux to windows.
SWK, my main concern for you is the lack of photoshop compatibility etc as I realise your graphical prowess/expertise and don't think you'd get by with GIMP.

I disagree. GIMP is extremely powerful once you get used to it. I've never used PS, other than a quick mess about, so I didn't have to "un-learn" it. Anything doable in PS is doable with GIMP.

For testing sites in IE, I run virtualbox with a different install of xp for IE6, IE7 etc. You can you use WINE for other apps like Spotify which works very well. However, if you're a gamer, look elsewhere.

I use a product called CrossOver for running the IE's etc. It's based on WINE, but is a lot more stable (although it's not free, it IS reasonably priced).

They also do a games version, which is surprisingly good compatibility wise (there's a database on the website)

Linux isn't for everyone. As with most things, it takes a while to get used to but hopefully, you'll never look back

I've managed to convert about 15 people in the past 6 months, ranging from tech-heads to tech-n00bs. NONE of them will go back to windows now!

Incidentally, if you're in London, or willing to travel, this might interest some of you >> http://ubuntuinbusin...eventbrite.com/

Also, a couple of links that might be of interest:

http://bit.ly/boKYQL

http://bit.ly/9MXZJC

[ElanMan]

I disagree. GIMP is extremely powerful once you get used to it. I've never used PS, other than a quick mess about, so I didn't have to "un-learn" it. Anything doable in PS is doable with GIMP.

I agree, GIMP is great but if you are proficient in /used to PS (like SWK) it could be a ballache.
Changing OS shouldn't mean changing software imo but that isn't the fault of Linux

I use a product called CrossOver for running the IE's etc. It's based on WINE, but is a lot more stable (although it's not free, it IS reasonably priced).

They also do a games version, which is surprisingly good compatibility wise (there's a database on the website)

I don't pay for anything, that's one of the reasons I use Linux.

I've managed to convert about 15 people in the past 6 months, ranging from tech-heads to tech-n00bs. NONE of them will go back to windows now!

There's no denying, Linux is user friendly!

[andy9l]

"once you go Mac you won't go back."

I think that could be generalised to "when you leave Windows, you'll realise it blows."; though I have been reasonably impressed with W7 so far - I just can't be bothered with virus protection and constant restarts (not all down to Windows I know). I'm trying to say that either of the two most popular UNIX OS's (Mac and Linux) will knock you for six if you're a previous Windows user.

Plus, if you're getting the hardware, Apple monitors (on all products) have unbeatable colour depth - useful for designing.

Except one of them costs three to four times as much as the others...

Umm, Windows is pretty damn overpriced... £229 for W7, only £25 for OS X Snow Leopard. More than 8 times more expensive for something arguably much worse

[Scott S]

Umm, Windows is pretty damn overpriced... £229 for W7, only £25 for OS X Snow Leopard. More than 8 times more expensive for something arguably much worse

Whereas, Linux is FREE

[andy9l]

Whereas, Linux is FREE

Dare I mention the upcoming Chrome OS?

(I'm pretty excited, I won't lie..!)

[Scott S]

Dare I mention the upcoming Chrome OS?

(I'm pretty excited, I won't lie..!)

I'd rather you didn't lol.

I'm kind of old fashioned. I'd rather have my data local, than totally cloud based.

It'll be fun to have a look at, but can't see me using it.

[sunwukung]

Not sure whether to be offended at the OLD part... lol

I'm not exactly what you'd call a spring chicken...

SWK, my main concern for you is the lack of photoshop compatibility etc as I realise your graphical prowess/expertise and don't think you'd get by with GIMP.

Why thankyou sir (in the voice of Scarlet o hara. Actually, that's a bit wierd, let's move on...)

my 5 yr old has his own xubuntu laptop and loves playing about with it

Lol, that's classic - I reckon this is an average phone conversation at your house...
http://imgs.xkcd.com...ts_of_a_mom.png

In any mention of linux, price has to be a factor; it's free ffs! Are you thinking of dual booting? Running on a spare machine? The whole hog? You have to try it, if only from a live cd

I'll look into setting up a dual boot - I don't really do much visual work these days - kind of fell by the wayside in favour of this lark...

Cheers for the advice EM, quality work as always, nice to hear from you!

[imaginarynumber]

I just can't be bothered with virus protection

Regardless of which OS you use you should be bothered.

No OS is virus free. At least M$ users are aware that they need a virus scanner.

There are too many mac and linux users that are infected out there that will remain so because the owners will never install AV protection that they think that they don't need it!!!

[Scott S]

Regardless of which OS you use you should be bothered.

No OS is virus free. At least M$ users are aware that they need a virus scanner.

There are too many mac and linux users that are infected out there that will remain so because the owners will never install AV protection that they think that they don't need it!!!

Actually, there are very FEW linux viruses.

Due to the way the operating system works, and that fact that NOTHING can run without your express permission, viruses are kinda pointless. I agree, complete n00bs MAY accidentally allow their machine to become infected, but it's still nowhere near as damaging as a windows virus.

And as an FYI, I DO run a virus scanner. I regularly share files with windows users, so I scan everything that comes in and goes out!

Macs, being unix based are also a lot less vulnerable to virus attack. Whilst I agree that NO O/S is completely virus proof, Mac and *nix users have a LOT less to worry about.

[andy9l]

Regardless of which OS you use you should be bothered.

I beg to differ. Over 5 years of OS X, not one issue. There is a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.".

No OS is virus free. At least M$ users are aware that they need a virus scanner.

No OS is virus free, correct. However, I believe that anyone using Mac/Linux will be fully aware of what a virus scanner is

There are too many mac and linux users that are infected out there that will remain so because the owners will never install AV protection that they think that they don't need it!!!

Unfortunately that's just a made up opinion of your own so can't really comment on it.

Macs, being unix based are also a lot less vulnerable to virus attack

I'm not arguing with this, but I don't know that it's true. I (a Mac user) fully believe that Macs are just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows, and the only reason that there are so few around at the moment is because of the tiny market share *nix systems occupy. I also believe that the majority of *nix users are of reasonable intellect - i.e. not teenage girls clicking on MSN links etc.. This makes it harder to get viruses to spread - virally.

The above is also the reason it worries me when I walk past Apple stores across the UK with young teenage girls in there quite literally screaming over the shiny MacBooks using Photobooth to upload their Apple store pictures to Facebook

[Scott S]

I'm not arguing with this, but I don't know that it's true. I (a Mac user) fully believe that Macs are just as vulnerable to viruses as Windows, and the only reason that there are so few around at the moment is because of the tiny market share *nix systems occupy. I also believe that the majority of *nix users are of reasonable intellect - i.e. not teenage girls clicking on MSN links etc.. This makes it harder to get viruses to spread - virally.

The above is also the reason it worries me when I walk past Apple stores across the UK with young teenage girls in there quite literally screaming over the shiny MacBooks using Photobooth to upload their Apple store pictures to Facebook

Unix architecture actually makes it harder for viruses to "do their thing" which, coupled with the reduced market share, makes targeting viruses at unix systems less desirable.

I agree about the whole teenager thing though. Once macs become more widespread, then obviously they'll become a more attractive target to virus creators.

The major benefit of Linux, over Mac and Windows, is that as a rule it's only very tech-savvy people who use it, and as such, there's a DRASTICALLY reduced chance of them doing anything that would enable a virus to have fun on their system.

[KCooper]

I haven't had a virus since I bought my current PC nearly 2 years ago. My FREE anti virus scans once every 3 days, and lasts for about 10 minutes. Its really not an inconvenience, I hardly even notice it doing its thing. Whenever I am inevitably asked to fix a friend or family members computer - I am not for a second saying that Windows systems DON'T get viruses, because they do :-P - I set up a similar system, and low and behold, no problems.

I am even running Windows Vista, of which I have heard untold stories of woe, and I have never had a problem. The issue is many people just don't look after thier computers, pc's are like cars; you need to change the water and check the oil, and avoid crashing into brick walls. If you do this, you will be provided with many years of happy service, as I have been. I know you can argue that with a mac, you don't even need to do this, but for the price difference, I can handle a 5 minute inconvenience once a week.

What I'm curious about is, what if in 12 months time, a major virus targeting macs is "released" into the wild; how many of them will have ANY security in place? Very few I would imagine.


Kyle

[sunwukung]

Of course, once you decide to go down the Linux route, you've then got to decide on a specific distro, but that's a whole other post!

Ok then Scott - which distro would you recommend, and why?

Not made by apple

I hate to admit, it but my Apple hate is partly due to those bedamned iPad ads - could the narrator be any more smug? I literally want to murder him.

"It's magical, you ALREADY know how to use it".
T**t.

I haven't had a virus since I bought my current PC nearly 2 years ago.

Then frankly, you aren't looking at enough pR0n

[KCooper]

Then frankly, you aren't looking at enough pR0n

Viruses attached to pornography? Your having a laugh aren't you?..................

[Scott S]

Scott S, on 01 July 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

Of course, once you decide to go down the Linux route, you've then got to decide on a specific distro, but that's a whole other post!

Ok then Scott - which distro would you recommend, and why?

It would all depend on what you want out of your computer/what you'd be using it for.

I'm a debian fan myself, and currently use the latest incarnation of Ubuntu.

It comes pre-installed with most of the apps normal people require, and IMO has some of the best hardware support out of linux distros. It automatically works with my wifi, audio and graphics chips (which can be a pain with some laptops). It's fast, even with a full plethora of applications, and several things set to load at start-up, I can go from power off, to the log-in screen in <45seconds. And from the log-in screen to the desktop READY TO GO in about another 10.

Ubuntu is also one of the more windows-user friendly distros.


I must confess, I'm quite "evangelical" about Linux, and do spend a fair amount of time trying to convert people. But it's for the good of mankind. Honestly!

Scott S, on 01 July 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

Not made by apple

I hate to admit, it but my Apple hate is partly due to those bedamned iPad ads - could the narrator be any more smug? I literally want to murder him.

"It's magical, you ALREADY know how to use it".
T**t.

Couldn't agree more. Most of the Apple adverts are irritating.

Don't get me wrong, I also own a Mac (an old g3 imac), but only because I won it. I wouldn't pay for a mac. EVER. I don't dispute that they're good pieces of kit, but they are not, under ANY circumstances worth the money.

Kcooper said:

I haven't had a virus since I bought my current PC nearly 2 years ago.

Then frankly, you aren't looking at enough pR0n

LMAO