[deanp]

With the new release of IE8, Safari 4 and Firefox 3 SURELY TO GOD by now it's time developers the world over got together and made a stand to phase out the pile of steaming excrement that is IE6? How much longer do we really have to put up with trying to work around the bane of all designers existence?

i think it's about time a stand is made, and i can't think of a better place for it; who's with me?!!!

[ErisDS]

Rumblings in the web designer world are really pushing towards this now, however more people still use IE6 than all the other browsers combined pretty much...

This is because of legacy IT systems & government/businesses which do not have the time or money to upgrade all the machines & browsers in their offices. A grand example is the NHS. You prob wouldn't mind tax payers money being spent on IT technicians to go around to every machine in every hospital and upgrade it, however average-joe-not-a-web-designer would see this as a waste of money.

The best steps you can take are to ensure everyone you know upgrades their browser, and then rather than spending hours making designs in IE6 look as pixel perfect as other browsers - just make sure it is functional.

HOWEVER you can't do this with clients who make large amounts of money through their sites as they rely on the IE6.0 masses for income.

Therefore we do still have to support IE6.0 and will do for the forseeable future. No one likes it, but unless MS do something drastic IE6 will never die out (you'd probably be surprised how many people still have Windows machines that are too old to run IE7 or 7).

[deanp]

i know NHS is indeed a perfect example. i'm working for them at the moment helping to update a massive influx of content for certain departments, and let me tell you; those machines in that office are some of the worst i have ever used! this is mainly the reason for me trying to get an uprising (more a bit of fun really with a small universally shared rant). to be honest i would be glad to update every one of those machines in my office for free if it meant my life would be slightly more stress free for the next 2 weeks .

Stupid corporate tightwads

besides, people in those offices should be working and not trying to look at our beautifully designed sites, mutilating them with IE6, so it wouldn't make a difference if we ousted IE6

[tdu]

I checked the stats on my own home page the other day. 16% of viewers were still using IE 6. Which is actually more users than were using IE7 on my site.

[KevBrad]

Home users will phase away from IE6 completely over the coming year however corporations will be very slow on the uptake as it is not their main priority.

So as great as an ideal it may be, I won't be abandoning IE6 development for the coming future.

[Avera]

We have a small govenment project in at the moment and specifications are IE5.5 upwards.

It's driving us insane with the IE fixes. Thank goodness for the IE conditional operator.

[ErisDS]

I wrote a blog post about this yesterday: http://erisds.co.uk/internet/down-with-ie6...it-to-microsoft </shameless plug>

I do hope that after Win 2k is finished with, MS will start to push for the end of IE6... but I really think the web design and development community needs to turn up the pressure and direct it at MS instead of directing it at users who just don't know any better.

[sunwukung]

I just want MS to stop making browsers full stop - or if they insist on continuing to do so - they stop making goddam proprietary methods that you have to use on their browser alone.
IE8 is no better - you have to add an IE specific tag to force it to "opt in" to standards mode. Add to that the whole concept of blacklisting, that your site will render in quirks or IE7 mode if it gets blacklisted as a result of users hitting the "compatibility mode" button.
Couple that with the endless workarounds you have to do in Javascript to accommodate their poxy browser - and you basically resign yourself to the conclusion that IE is, and always will be - a heaving pile of ****.

If you hadn't guessed, I utterly hate IE.

[M8 INTERNET]

Just looking at some basic stats from March 2009 and clearly it will be some time before designers can phase out IE6
Never mind that, I still can't believe some people are still using Netscape?!

Msie 7.0 26.7 %
Msie 6.0 24 %
Msie 5.0 0.2 %
Firefox 3.0.7 18.7 %
Firefox 3.0.6 2.1 %
Firefox 3.0.4 1.9 %
Firefox 2.0.0.20 0.3 %
Netscape 5.0 5.9 %
Netscape 4.5 0.1 %
Opera 10.7 %
Mozilla 3.2 %
Safari 1.9 %

I'm surprised that IE5 is as low as it is with none for IE4, given these were shipped with Windows 98 and some people are known "never" to update their systems
However visits with IE6 are down by about 50% and visits by Firefox up by about 10% during April 2009

I personally prefer IE6 over IE7, and don't have any issues with it, however IE7 refuses to load correctly in my version of Windows XP

[Guezala]

LOL I can relate to the NHS systems being very outdated cos i remember being a student, having a second hand computer at home and it still having a more up to date version of windows on it than the one at work LOL

Anyway.. waiting for the day when the press release comes IE6 is blown up and NEVER to return

[ZigPress]

Quote

NHS ... Stupid corporate tightwad

When did it become NHS plc? Last I knew, it was your taxes paying for all that kit. I guess if you all want to pay more tax, they'd probably happily upgrade their PCs...

[Avera]

sunwukung, on Apr 13 2009, 22:33, said:

...I just want MS to stop making browsers full stop...

Here here!

[Matthew Stocker]

Avera, on Apr 14 2009, 12:45, said:

Here here!

Get ready for a major *GASP* here, I actually think IE8 is a decent browser!

[Avera]

*GASP*

[Chris Watterston]

http://www.bringdownie6.com/

[peterpearson]

For those of you who haven't seen these splash pages yet: http://blog.hugsformonsters.com/post/87657...e6-splash-pages

Really tempted to use these sometimes!

Back in the real world, it's not just that big corporations have to spend money updating each machine. It seems many places have custom built systems that don't work on newer browsers so they can't upgrade until these are fixed.

[Sam G]

IE is the biggest pile of steaming dog poo ever! I concur with the people above who wish that Microsoft would stop making web browsers.

I understand some places like the NHS haven't joined the rest of us in 2009 and use up-to-date browsers, but really there isn't much of an excuse for home users not to use at least IE7 (or a proper standards-adhering web browser).

[yukisong]

Thanks!!

[sass]

I have worked for the NHS in general practice on and off since they first used computers. Now as it it was then, if something to do with the computers has to be changed/upgraded etc it's one person you have to convince. I think they need to concentrate on there patient/appointment management software before anything else.

Anyhoo, back on topic, I hate IE6 as well although I think I would actually miss the challenge of having to code round it

[tobo]

ZigPress, on Apr 14 2009, 07:37, said:

When did it become NHS plc? Last I knew, it was your taxes paying for all that kit. I guess if you all want to pay more tax, they'd probably happily upgrade their PCs...

Perhaps they could put it through someones expenses??? Along with a ferarri and a privet jet (essential equipment for being an MP!)

[Redcentaur]

deanp, on Mar 23 2009, 23:01, said:

With the new release of IE8, Safari 4 and Firefox 3 SURELY TO GOD by now it's time developers the world over got together and made a stand to phase out the pile of steaming excrement that is IE6? How much longer do we really have to put up with trying to work around the bane of all designers existence?

i think it's about time a stand is made, and i can't think of a better place for it; who's with me?!!!

Unfortunately, it isn't that simple. All the designers in the world can decide not to design for IE6 any more, but we would be disadvantaging between 10 - 20% of web traffic. It isn't easy to explain to a client that you are not going to cater for up to 20% of their potential client base.

I wrote a blog post on this subject last month, using my own stats as the basis for my position. You can read it here, if you are interested in the argument - http://www.blog.redc...om/is-ie6-dead/.

In fact, it is not that difficult to cater for IE6 in your designs or to provide a workable CSS for IE6 to which the browser defaults. You can use the same CSS file for all sites and inform clients that you will enable their site to work in older browsers but that it will not look and feel the same as in more modern browsers (unless they want to pay you more to develop a bespoke CSS for IE6). A good example of a generic CSS file can be found at the blog, For A Beautiful Web: http://forabeautifulweb.com/blog/about/uni...explorer_6_css/

Just so you don't think I am a closet IE6 fan or anything, I would love to see it's demise; but unfortunately, I can't dictate to all the businesses, organisations and technophobes out there that can't/won't/don't know how to upgrade to a better browser. Until they do, we're stuck. On a positive note, I have noticed a considerable decline in IE6 users visiting all my sites over the last few months since IE8 launched. I am now down to an average of 7% of visitors per month.

Regards

Glenn

[simianman]

I run Safari, Firefox and Opera on my Mac, IE 7 on a different machine and IE 6 on an old crappy laptop I bought on Ebay - IE7, not too bad and no-one here will be surprised to here that IE 6 represents the 20% that I spend 80% of my time debugging, the point is when will Microsoft finally accept the WWW Standards, create a new mac version of IE and allow me to ditch my ****ty windows pcs ?

[Badmotherz]

It's not about what we want or need, although I agree IE6 is a ball ache. it's about the users. I have a serviceable 51 reg Vectra Estate that's a bit rusty in places, smells and is dirty. BUT it gets me form A to B for work and I have no need to change it. The same is true for IE6 users. In many cases they don't see the need to change and so will stick. In other cases they can't change as are governed by some archaic corporate structure.

What we as designers should be doing is ensuring our designs are serviceable for IE6 users, but without busting a gut to get it pixel perfect - http://dowebsitesnee...erybrowser.com/

[pat24]

I recently built a site to clients request, finished site uploaded site and contacted client, client wrote back saying site is rubbish(in so many words), she had ie6, spent the rest of the day writing conditional comments png fixes etc.

Morale, dont give up ie6 yet

Pat

[davep]

pat24, on Jun 14 2009, 13:36, said:

I recently built a site to clients request, finished site uploaded site and contacted client, client wrote back saying site is rubbish(in so many words), she had ie6, spent the rest of the day writing conditional comments png fixes etc.

Morale, dont give up ie6 yet

Pat

moral of the story: you should have checked first in ie 6 at least to make sure it looked ok and was usable, it doesn't have to look the same or even as pretty but basically ok. hope you checked in other browsers too