[Lee W]

Hi guys,

I am after some advice mainly from people who earn a living from web designing.

I currently have a full time job working in sales & have been studying web design related subjects such as HTML, CSS & PHP from home in my spare time for about 7-8 months & have spent an absolute fortune on books.

I eventually either want to work in the web design industry or ideally work for myself.

I am thinking of taking an open university course later this year as I appreciate I could read books 24 hours a day but it's always healthy to have some recognized qualifications.

What advice can you give me & are there any other courses I could study at home which are very good.

Also, any recommendations on study literature would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Lee.

[Paul372]

Hi Lee,

I was looking into some home learning courses until I came on here, Most people would say that best thing to do is stick to the books and online resources. The best thing is to start building a portfolio of what you can do..

Just a little advice..

Paul

Lee W, on Mar 14 2009, 16:04, said:

Hi guys,

I am after some advice mainly from people who earn a living from web designing.

I currently have a full time job working in sales & have been studying web design related subjects such as HTML, CSS & PHP from home in my spare time for about 7-8 months & have spent an absolute fortune on books.

I eventually either want to work in the web design industry or ideally work for myself.

I am thinking of taking an open university course later this year as I appreciate I could read books 24 hours a day but it's always healthy to have some recognized qualifications.

What advice can you give me & are there any other courses I could study at home which are very good.

Also, any recommendations on study literature would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Lee.

[Lee W]

Paul372, on Mar 14 2009, 17:54, said:

Hi Lee,

I was looking into some home learning courses until I came on here, Most people would say that best thing to do is stick to the books and online resources. The best thing is to start building a portfolio of what you can do..

Just a little advice..

Paul

Thanks Paul,

Are you a web designer yourself or still learnng like me?

[ReaperWD]

Hi Lee,

I looked at a course, and decided that i would learn from books. How good are your skills? If you can code well in CSS/HTML then you should have no problem putting a portfolio together, and getting the odd £20 here or there, until you are good enough to launch your career fully.

If possible, try to find someone to take you on as an apprentice, if nothing else, they can check your code and help spot mistakes. I still make mistakes, but at least i tend not to make them twice.

Reaper

[Paul372]

Still learning like you... I've just bought myself a couple of books. Ive made a couple of sites in dreamweaver but want to learn a hell of a lot more!
Im worrying about understanding it all lol...

Paul..

Lee W, on Mar 14 2009, 20:54, said:

Thanks Paul,

Are you a web designer yourself or still learnng like me?

[tobo]

I am taking a course at the moment. Its the CIW Web site Manager course and I cant say I would recommend it but I dont regret taking the course because I know I needed a structure to stick to otherwise my learning would be slow and probably full of gaps.
I have been trying to get to know some one in webdesign so I can bounce ideas of them and offer to help them out however I can. unfortunatley they all seem to be hidden away somwhere making sites!
It's weird that there isnt a really solid course to do?? Anyone want to start one???

PM me if you want to know more about the CIW course. but like I said I cant say its the best.

[ReaperWD]

tobo, on Mar 14 2009, 22:55, said:

I have been trying to get to know some one in webdesign so I can bounce ideas of them and offer to help them out however I can. unfortunatley they all seem to be hidden away somwhere making sites!
It's weird that there isnt a really solid course to do?? Anyone want to start one???

If it helps, im normally on msn to lend a hand to anyone that i can: k3thebest99@hotmail.com

I agree there needs to be an industry recognised course, but as with alot of graphical things, you can get alot of certificates to say you can do nearly everything, but you could just do it, put it in a portfolio, saving you time and money, and its better proof.

Reaper

[Lee W]

I am thinking of taking the open university courses where you can aim towards a degree. Can anyone recommend a really good javascript book for beginners?

[T_break]

I would stongly advise you to go with a reputable company such as the OU dont be tempted to go for a faster route like a corespondance course, in my experiance they do more harm than good I took a course with ICS it cost a fortune and showed me some interesting techniques like using tables for layout! and how to make a site in Frames! fortunatly I had to go online a lot to check out what they were telling me and discovered it was all pap. What a waste of time and money that was.

A degree will do you no harm whatsoever its a good way of showing advanced competency, but unlike other proffesions a Degree is not a must, an oustanding portfolio will stand you just as well, if you are going freelance to start with clients will look to your portfolio more than anything. so there you have it both routes have their good and bad points, The degree is a well recognised symbol of competency, downside is it takes years and costs a fortune if you fund yourself. the self learning approach is faster and cheaper books and online will provide all the resources you need, but no qualification to show for your efforts.

[neilp]

Lee W, on Mar 15 2009, 14:16, said:

I am thinking of taking the open university courses where you can aim towards a degree. Can anyone recommend a really good javascript book for beginners?

Lee

I am CIW certified and would never encourage anyone to do a course on web design. When i passed my second exam, which gave me the title of...."CIW Professional" i still couldn't design a full web site from scratch. Yer i had a ruff idea because the basics is all i had learn't.

Getting certified in the web industry is only good if you want to get into teaching( ACE, ACI ) or if you want to get into development which is then any microsoft cert (MCAD, MCTS...)

CIW is the only recognized certification in web design and is a complete waste of time and money. All you have got to do is a job search for CIW, and you will be lucky to get one result! Do a job search on MCAD, MCTS ect and you will get dozens.
A degree seems a waste of time to. I have been applying for dozens of jobs over the last year and not one recruiter has asked for a degree qualification.

I am saying all this because i strongly believe (if you haven't guessed) that paying thousands of pounds for courses is a complete waste of time and effort when you can just as easy learn as much as you want from the comfort of your own home from free or small subscription sites. I did in the end and many people have. You just need to grab a couple of decent books from Amazon and sign up to as many online training sites as possible (see below) and get a copy of either Gimp or the industry's favorite...Photoshop!

Then either download a free text editor ( Aptana, notepad++, webuilder) or use the one already on your system...Notepad and get your head down! Also you need to be passionate and determined to succeed and except that it will take a few years to become proficient enough to get ahead in this industry.

Start yourself a portfolio and just keep adding to it until you have enough to impress recruiters.

Here is a list of training site that i still use but you need to pay a small subscription:

http://www.lynda.com

http://www.kelbytraining.com

http://www.totaltraining.com

http://www.learnflash.com

Free training sites:

http://css-tricks.com

http://psd.tutsplus.com

http://www.gotoandlearn.com

http://net.tutsplus.com

http://www.kirupa.com

http://sampsonvideos.com

And with regards to books. I highly recommend:

Bullet proof webdesign - By Dan Cederholm

CSS: The missing manual - By David sawyer Mcfarland

Foundation website creation with CSS, xhtml and Javascript - Published by Friends of ED

I hope this helps?

- Neil

[Lee W]

neilp, on Mar 15 2009, 18:49, said:

Lee

I am CIW certified and would never encourage anyone to do a course on web design. When i passed my second exam, which gave me the title of...."CIW Professional" i still couldn't design a full web site from scratch. Yer i had a ruff idea because the basics is all i had learn't.

Getting certified in the web industry is only good if you want to get into teaching( ACE, ACI ) or if you want to get into development which is then any microsoft cert (MCAD, MCTS...)

CIW is the only recognized certification in web design and is a complete waste of time and money. All you have got to do is a job search for CIW, and you will be lucky to get one result! Do a job search on MCAD, MCTS ect and you will get dozens.
A degree seems a waste of time to. I have been applying for dozens of jobs over the last year and not one recruiter has asked for a degree qualification.

I am saying all this because i strongly believe (if you haven't guessed) that paying thousands of pounds for courses is a complete waste of time and effort when you can just as easy learn as much as you want from the comfort of your own home from free or small subscription sites. I did in the end and many people have. You just need to grab a couple of decent books from Amazon and sign up to as many online training sites as possible (see below) and get a copy of either Gimp or the industry's favorite...Photoshop!

Then either download a free text editor ( Aptana, notepad++, webuilder) or use the one already on your system...Notepad and get your head down! Also you need to be passionate and determined to succeed and except that it will take a few years to become proficient enough to get ahead in this industry.

Start yourself a portfolio and just keep adding to it until you have enough to impress recruiters.

Here is a list of training site that i still use but you need to pay a small subscription:

http://www.lynda.com

http://www.kelbytraining.com

http://www.totaltraining.com

http://www.learnflash.com

Free training sites:

http://css-tricks.com

http://psd.tutsplus.com

http://www.gotoandlearn.com

http://net.tutsplus.com

http://www.kirupa.com

http://sampsonvideos.com

And with regards to books. I highly recommend:

Bullet proof webdesign - By Dan Cederholm

CSS: The missing manual - By David sawyer Mcfarland

Foundation website creation with CSS, xhtml and Javascript - Published by Friends of ED

I hope this helps?

- Neil

Hi Neil,

Thanks very much for this advice & recommendations on books & training sites it's appreciated.

I will certainly take your advice & what seems to be most other peoples advice which is to get my head down & study from home & because I have a passion for the subject I think I could do well.

Thanks again.
Lee.

[neilp]

Lee W, on Mar 15 2009, 19:55, said:

I will certainly take your advice & what seems to be most other peoples advice which is to get my head down & study from home & because I have a passion for the subject I think I could do well.

Thanks again.
Lee.

I am not one for preaching, but being passionate is probably the key to being successful in this industry. I couldn't believe how passionate i got when i first starting learning. Then again i don't know if it's passion or obsession? Probably a bit of both?

Good luck with it all!

- Neil

[caraewilton]

I actually teach a GCSE ICT course which involves a web designing component. The syllabus requires that I teach my students table layouts. The reason for this, the examinations are set up to 2 years in advance and changes in the syllabus can take up to 5 years to be implemented. I wrote to the examination board (a very reputable one just by the way) and asked if my students would be penalised if they completed the layout using divs and was informed that they would have to use tables as no allocation is made at this point for CSS layouts, however they hope to incorporate this in the future. I suspect that many institutions face this problem. Computers - web design - changes almost daily but it does takes years to implement a syllabus and as a result such courses are often out dated.

All in all, teach yourself. As pointed out, this is a profession being able to actually do the job out ways the need to have a qualification.

[ReaperWD]

neilp, on Mar 15 2009, 18:49, said:

I have been applying for dozens of jobs over the last year and not one recruiter has asked for a degree qualification.

Ive found the opposite for some n my area. they want 2 degrees (graphic design and computing ), for a job that pays £14k a year

Reaper

[Vitruvius Web]

What would be a good question is what views does everybody have on the future of the web design industry? I think a career as a web designer who works on his own may be very difficult because of the competition and the increase in technology making it too easy for people to compete with littler and littler experience, what are everybodies thoughts here? Finding a niche in the market is the best policy when wanting to compete in web design.

[neilp]

Vitruvius Web, on Apr 13 2009, 15:36, said:

What would be a good question is what views does everybody have on the future of the web design industry? I think a career as a web designer who works on his own may be very difficult because of the competition and the increase in technology making it too easy for people to compete with littler and littler experience, what are everybodies thoughts here? Finding a niche in the market is the best policy when wanting to compete in web design.

I absolutely agree with you. The web design industry is so saturated that it will take some getting into. Unless you are bursting with talent? there will always be someone better than you or cheaper than you.
One bit of advice i read the other day from a well known web designer (Stephanie Sullivan) was either choose to know a little about everything or a lot about one thing.

What i do believe is only learn the things that you enjoy and feel passionate about. That way you WILL get good at them no matter what it takes.

But what really gets up my nose regarding this industry is the constant upgrades in software. Just when you think you have mastered one thing another BETTER one comes along (CS4 comes to mind). And these technologies are getting easier to learn. It's worrying! Just take a look at Dreamweaver or Flash catalyst for an example. I have just spent the most of 2008 learning Actionscript 3.0 and Adobe go and bring out a new piece of software that allows Flash designers to create applications WITHOUT touching any code, basically taking away some of the responsibilities off the flash developers. Same goes with Dreamweaver, as you don't NEED to know the mark-up.

I know flash and DW isn't everybody's cup-of-tea and this is just a small example but think about it....... Adobe are gonna keep creating new software that makes things easier for designers/developers alike so they can create more complex applications without the need to know the true ins-and-outs. Effectively putting the hardcore coders out of work and those that haven't got the money to up-grade or the time to learn? Or the software will be so easy to learn that 12 year old's will be experts?

Just as long as Adobe are selling the software, they couldn't give a toss!
I am just gonna stick to me guns and try and know as much as i can about the things i have chosen.... Flash(AS), PHP, Photoshop, xhtml/css. And just see where it gets me??

Sorry people for the lengthy post!

[marilynmonroe]

If you want to join web designing as a profession u must have strong basic concept of web designing tools like html,php,asp etc.if your want professionalism in your designing skill u also work hard & make creativit in your work.

http://www.studioxcess.com

[Jarvooo]

I agree, when i first started learning web and graphic design the whole concept and landscape of learning has changed so much; software these days makes it so easy that all you need is really to know how to use a computer and you have the basic grasp of photoshop and dreamweaver; automation processes are notoriously a pain in the backside, but will they hamper the design industry for hard working professionals, will we get swallowed by cheaper prices and newer technology?

A customer base is obviously for anyone, going to be a more useful tool than money can buy in 3-5 years. We have a recession at the moment which is forcing more people to go cheaper and cheaper; forcing others into business through no other reason than to survive. Unfortunately the downside for the rest of us in this is it gets extremely competitive and means on occasion we have to go lower than usual to do the same work we could have asked extra for a while back.

Id say without a doubt almost anyone with a basic grasp can become a web or graphic designer; whether this devalues the rest of us, time will tell.

[neilp]

Jarvooo, on Apr 14 2009, 16:09, said:

A customer base is obviously for anyone, going to be a more useful tool than money can buy in 3-5 years. We have a recession at the moment which is forcing more people to go cheaper and cheaper; forcing others into business through no other reason than to survive. Unfortunately the downside for the rest of us in this is it gets extremely competitive and means on occasion we have to go lower than usual to do the same work we could have asked extra for a while back.

Id say without a doubt almost anyone with a basic grasp can become a web or graphic designer; whether this devalues the rest of us, time will tell.

This is a good point. I remember last summer when i started applying for work, i was getting phone calls and interviews almost every fortnight. Not only that but the contract work i was getting offered was high pay( I didn't even take any due to the time frame!). But since the recession, companies are being so cautious. It's not just the one interview, it's come back again for a second interview or even a third!

So those who are more experienced are getting the work. And those that where freelancing are taking the permanent positions due to their variety of skills and experience. I am just glad i got in when i did. Even though i am struggling to get work, there is still some coming in. Got offered a six month contract last week but it was in Dublin and couldn't relocate.


It is a worry, not the recession, but web design as a whole!

Just how long will it be before software companies are going to create quality programs that allow anyone, absolutely anyone with no experience to be able to create their own websites just from a click of a button?
That's the trouble with technology, it will always improve and you have to stay ahead of the game. But how long will it be before the games over!

I believe these software companies are going to shoot themselves in the foot as they will be so wrapped up in creating these programs that they will end up putting thousands of web designers out of business and this will only effect their sales. Just look at Adobe with their CS4 package!

Getting into web design as a profession?.......Ask that again in a few years?

[rosiesp]

Lee W, on Mar 14 2009, 17:04, said:

Also, any recommendations on study literature would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Lee.

see http://www.webdesignerforum.co.uk/index.ph...amp;#entry93813 for a pdf that shows the relationships of various aspects of web design as per CIW Foundations v5.

[KevBrad]

To give yourself a good footing to getting into the web design/development industry you need to have a decent grasp of all the principles involved

Graphic Design
Web Development/Programming
Computer Networks
Project Management
People Skills

Time, patience and hard graft will give you the experience you need. At the very least you need some URL's to show prospective employees. If you find it difficult to get the work, do it for free, that's what I did - just do whatever it takes to create as many URL's as you can.

Go for jobs, get interviews and if you get the thanks but no thanks reply then don't be afraid to ask for feedback. You need broad shoulders and the ability to be highlighy critical of your own work and abilities to succeed. Perserver and have faith and eventually it will come to you.

Education has its place but experience and attitude are far more desirable.

[Shivani Kapoor]

I m always prepare for learning anything like designing

[emms]

Remember that you will never know everything and there will always be others who are more sucessfull and know a lot more, but keep going, keep learning, learning and lthen earning some more and you will succeed

I studied a few basic multimedia, html, css, e-business, user interface design modules at university but the majority of my web design skills are self taught

Good luck