[Eskymo]

Hey

I've noticed that a few sites I visit have fuzzy text that no matter what size I make it, it never stops being fuzzy. This is one site in particular:

DMHall

Here's a screengrab of what I see...

 fuzzytext.jpg (84.95K)
Number of downloads: 38

Is it my browser settings or is it the site's css? I'm using the latest version of FF on a PC - anybody else see fuzzy text or is it just yet another thing wrong with my PC?

Cheers

E

[php_penguin]

renders fine for me (Firefox 2.0.0.7 Ubuntu)

[Dizi]

Fine in the latest windows firefox and ie7 for me.

[liquid]

They did my house survey when I bought it............if anyone's interested?

No I thought not....

Anyway it looks fine to me Firefox 2.0 Mac. no fuzzzziness

[php_penguin]

sorry .. but .. what?

[Thomas Thomassen]

I'm guessing you're not using clear type to anti-alias your font?

On Windows, if you're not using Clear Type small font will be aliased (jagged), and if the fonts then isn't hinted properly it'll look messy. On regular anti-aliasing Windows will only anti-alias font sizes over 14pt I think.

IE7 will by default use ClearType to render the text independent of system settings.

Macs will also by default render anti-aliased fonts by default. So will the latest Linux versions. (Linux even support sub-pixel anti-aliasing)

That site you linked to used the following fonts:
"Lucida Grande", "Lucida Sans", "Trebuchet MS", Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif, Arial
All but the first one is Windows fonts. They should be hinted for small aliased rendering. Have you by any chance installed Mac fonts on your PC? Does your PC have Licida Grande? It could be this font that isn't hinted well.

[Thomas Thomassen]

P.S. I installed some Mac fonts, including Lucida Grande a couple of days ago I noticed that many site's fonts had changed. Turns out that many of their first preference is Lucida Grande.
But since I got ClearType enabled it looks fine.

[Eskymo]

I haven't got Lucida Grande on my PC but have Lucida Sans. I switched off the cleartype thing in IE7 and that's not made any difference. I've been working on this site today and text has made my brain fuzzy. I guess they've not set the fonts correctly as it must still be trying to render Lucida Grande even though I don't have it.

What's the solution?

I have the same problem when viewing this website: W3Csites and notice in their CSS they specify "font-family: "Lucida Sans", "Lucida Grante", Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" which is strange as I have Lucida Sans.

Very annoying.

[Eskymo]

is Lucida Grande a standard PC font...if so why haven't i got it?

[Thomas Thomassen]

Lucida Grande is a Mac font.
I think Lucida Sans is a standard Windows font since XP, I think.

So the text looks odd on http://www.w3csites....le.asp?u=Eskymo which got Lucida Sans as prefered font?
Have you tried a test page with text in just that font?

What anti-aliasing do you have set for your computer?

[Rachael]

Fuzzy over here on FF2 / Vista.

[Eskymo]

Thomas Thomassen, on Oct 22 2007, 09:52 PM, said:

What anti-aliasing do you have set for your computer?

I have no idea - how do I check something like that out?

[Thomas Thomassen]

On XP it's under Appearance Settings, then under Effects. Then it should be that drop down menu.

[EggMan]

fuzzy for me, ff2 win xp

[Eskymo]

In my settings I have the option of Standard or ClearType and it was set to Standard, so I changed it to ClearType and checked the websit again and there is no change...still fuzzy.

[Thomas Thomassen]

Hm... now this is just weird.
Three people see "fuzzy" text. (I assume everyone refers to the same as in the original screenshot; broken aliased text.)
XP and Vista. All in Firefox. Same thing in Opera or IE?

ClearType should render fonts smooth no matter what, so this is a real oddity. Same thing after reboot? (maybe it didn't apply properly...)

Of the fonts the site uses ("Lucida Grande", "Lucida Sans", "Trebuchet MS", Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif, Arial;) which ones don't you have?

You said that w3csites uses "Lucida Sans", "Lucida Grante", Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;",... do you got a couple of other example sites? Maybe there's a pattern here somewhere.

[Eskymo]

I tried the site in all the pc browsers I have [IE7, netscape, opera, firefox] and get fuzzy text in all of them. Out of the fonts you list I have:

Lucida Sans, Trebuchet MS, Tahoma, Verdana, Arial and I presume sans-serif

As for other examples I've not come across any more...I just know of those two as I've been working on updates for one and I'm a member of the other.

It is very odd.

[Thomas Thomassen]

By the looks of it, the font hinting is broken. (As well as your ClearType)
I also noticed that it's rather small text in that screenshot. What happens if you override the fontsize to a bigger one?

[Eskymo]

i get bigger fuzzy text!

[Thomas Thomassen]

uuh? o_O ... I think my brain turns fuzzy...
I'm gonna fire up my own XP laptop and have a look.

[Thomas Thomassen]

This thing is really getting to me. I've been googling my eyes soar and I don't find any similar descriptions.

You got the Webdeveloper Toolbar installed in FF? If so, do a live edit of the CSS and remove one font family description at a time. See if the text changes then. I'm wondering if you got a broken font installed...

[Eskymo]

that's a good idea!

[Eskymo]

it's the Lucida Sans that is causing the problem - if I take that out of the font list...clear text appears. I personally have never seen a font size declared like 62.5%/1.6em before so that me causing a problem too. I'll advise the client to remove the Lucida Sans from the font list tomorrow as I've got to speak to them anyway. Can't do the site any harm.

[Thomas Thomassen]

I could that copy of Lucida Sans that's the problem
I got an OpenType version named Lucida Sans Unicode and it works fine. So maybe changing "Lucida Sans" to "Lucida Sans Unicode" is an option.

[Thomas Thomassen]

Ok, knowing that the culprit was Lucida Sans I found some more info;

I think with some versions of XP, Microsoft have distributed a distorted version of Lucida Sans, which when used with ClearType, it looks very rough indeed. If anyone knows if this is the case, and if there is any way to fix it, it would be very much appreciated. If not, we'll have to have a different font I think :(

Although, does it look distorted for other pages in the site?

And this wiki on Lucida Sans Unicode, http://en.wikipedia....da_Sans_Unicode, explains that it's been a default font in Windows since 98. It's pretty much identical to Lucida Grande which is that site's first choice.

So it appears that "Lucida Sans Unicode" should be defined instead of "Lucida Sans".

*phew*

Another typographical nightmare is over.